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No Fault DCI? The Story of My Wife’s PFO

What does it mean if you keep getting bent, even when you follow all the rules? Avid tech diver James Fraser recounts his and his wife’s Deana journey of discovery that led them to realize she had a PFO. Does any of this sound familiar? Read on!

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Breathing O2

by James Fraser

All photos courtesy of James Fraser

When you follow all the rules and still get decompression illness, what’s up?

The person I hold most dear in this life has now had three incidents of decompression illness (DCI) over a two-year period. The latest episode required recompression, so we began investigating her frequent illness to determine if there was a possible solution. Deana is a very conservative diver, diving within her training, computer limits, and dive planning tools such as Deco Planner. On all of the dives where she had DCI, her training, tools, and dive profiles say she should not have gotten bent. But she got bent just the same.  

DCI is a risk for any diver, even when following the rules. However, we have to remember that DCI is a potential sports injury, no different than a football player risking a concussion. Despite this fact, DCI seems stigmatized, and people feel ashamed to admit it happened to them. So Deana and I decided to share her experiences with DCI, to help others realize, Sh*t, I mean, DCI happens! Experiences with DCI should be shared, so that the diving community can continue to learn, grow, and be safer divers. 

Some background

Deana Fraser has been a registered nurse (RN) for over 25 years, and received her BSN in 2002. Throughout her career, she has specialized in ER, ICU, and OR nursing. Currently, she manages the Overlake Operating Roomin Bellevue, Wash. When Deana is not managing the OR, she is usually diving in the extreme conditions of the Pacific Northwest (PNW), where all dives are cold (46-55℉/8-13°C), dark, and wonderful. Deana has been a recreational diver since 2004, and loves diving in Seattle and the surrounding areas as often as three days a week. It is her number one passion. 

She just completed her Global Underwater Explorers (GUE) Technical 1 course (normoxic trimix) in September 2019, and as of this article she has completed over 500 dives, 150 during 2019 alone. Deana always looks forward to expanding her skills and experience in the recreational and technical diving arena. 

Deana is also a breast cancer survivor; she was diagnosed with Stage Two breast cancer in May 2016, and underwent a lumpectomy and six weeks of radiation treatment, until July 2016. She is in full recovery, but continues to take Tamoxifen (20mg) daily. This information is not intended to draw any type of correlation of breast cancer and DCI, but to give all details about Deana’s fitness and health in respect to her history with DCI.

Deana is one of those people that lets nothing hold her back. She was not able to dive for a few months after her radiation treatment, so she turned to her second love: hiking. She proceeded to hike over 200 miles (dragging her husband with her) over the next six months while she was recovering. Deana has been cancer free for over three years now and is back to her first love of diving. When she returned to diving, she pursued her dream of technical diving and signed up for GUE Fundamentals in 2017. She has been unstoppable since then and again has dragged her husband along for the ride. 

After cancer treatment, Deana spent a lot of time building up her strength and dexterity in order to pack double 100s over the rocky beaches of the PNW. She trained relentlessly to reach the goal of being a GUE Tech 1 Diver, a mission that she accomplished. In addition to her regular dives, Deana leads a weekly Skills Refinery Dive, offering opportunities for other local divers to hone their techniques and commit to excellence. Many are working on their GUE Tech skills to prepare for Tech 1. Deana is not done with her education and has dreams of completing GUE’s Tech 2 course in the future. Now that you know the type of person Deana is, let’s talk about the reason she and I have written this article. 

Look, James. I Got Stung by Something!

Deana and I went on a 16-day trip to the Maldives in April 2018. We spent the first week at Olhuveli Beach Resort resting, flipping our internal clocks, and doing a few recreational shore and boat charter dives. The second week, we joined up with our local Seattle dive group on Blue Force One, a fantastic live-aboard charter, for seven days of additional recreational diving; no dives on this trip were below 100 ft/30 m. On day three of diving on Blue Force, after her second dive, Deana talked to me about being stung on her abdomen. She presented with redness, point tenderness, and stinging in an area about the size of a silver dollar. She was wearing a full length 3mm wet so it definitely was not something she would have brushed against during the dive. She took a Benadryl, feeling that something stung her, got some sleep, and by the next morning it had cleared up. Deana continued diving for the rest of the trip and had no further symptoms. We now suspect that she had a minor case of skin bends, based on the other two episodes she has had since. 

Deana and I also dived in Loreto, Mexico, six months after the Maldives, in October 2018, and performed  ten dives over four days with a max depth of 80 ft/24 m; Deana showed no symptoms of DCI.

Could I Have Skin Bends?

In April this year, 2019, Deana and I were in Hurghada, Egypt, on a live-aboard dive trip with Red Sea Explorers aboard MV Nouran. Deana had completed eight recreational nitrox dives over three days, the deepest dive being 98 ft/30 m, when she showed signs of skin bends. Below are the dive profiles of the two dives the day she presented with skin bends. She again had symptoms of stinging and itching on her thighs and abdomen and point tenderness. The area was larger than the first experience she had in the Maldives.

First dive of the day: Double 12L tanks with nitrox 32 after 11 hour surface interval
Second Dive: Double 12L with nitrox 32 after 3:23min surface interval.

Deana again wondered if it was some kind of sting or allergic reaction and asked me and some of the more experienced divers for our opinions. A couple of the more senior technical divers on board agreed: Her symptoms looked and presented like skin bends. Deana went on 100% oxygen (O2) for a few hours, and the symptoms went away. She took the next day off and then continued to dive recreationally with more conservatism for the remainder of the trip. One other person on the trip who was doing Tech 1 level dives also showed signs of skin bends; they were treated with O2 and continued to dive for the rest of the trip with no further issues. 

After this episode we thought about the Maldives: Since it presented the same way and resolved itself with some time and O2, we now assumed that was also an incident of minor skin bends. 

Skin Bends Again, But Nothing a Bit of O2 Can’t Fix

Deana and I were attending Tek week at Buddy Dive in Bonaire. We were both looking forward to a week of Tech 1 dives (Max depth 170 ft/50 m, max deco: 30 min), as this was Deana’s first trip since passing her course. We had done three dives total over days one and two at recreational depths on nitrox 32 (32% oxygen, 68% nitrogen) with no required deco. 

On day three we planned to dive to 150 ft/46 m on trimix 21/35 (21% oxygen, 35% helium), with 25 min bottom time with a gas switch to nitrox 50 at 70 ft/21 m. Our decompression profile used GUE modified deco based on Deco Planner with 2 min stops from 70 ft/21 m to 30 ft/10 m and a 16 min stop at 20 ft/6 m. The total planned run time for that dive was 58 min. At the start of our ascent, our average depth was only 132 ft/40 m, as we had worked our way slowly up the reef after hitting a max depth of 152 ft/46 m.

Deco Planner Dive Profile
Perdix Shearwater Dive profile using GF20/85

After a three-and-a-half-hour surface interval, we planned a 100 ft/30 m dive on nitrox 32 with a bottom time of 40 min with a gas switch to 100% O2 at 20 tf/6 m for 10 minutes for added conservativism. Total run time for that dive was 69 min, as we extended our 20 ft/6 m stop a lot longer to just hang and enjoy the reef. 

Deco Planner for Dive 2
Perdix Shearwater Dive profile using GF20/85

Roughly two hours after this dive, Deana complained of itchy stinging skin on her hips and abdomen; she described it as being like stinging nettles. She was not concerned as this felt like what she had in Egypt, so we put her on 100% O2 for about an hour and a half and all symptoms resolved. Deana and I considered this a minor issue, and we did not talk to anyone about the symptoms since they quickly resolved. No further issues were experienced that evening. 

It is here that human factors really played into the scenario. Deana and I made the mistake of not talking about the issue we had just experienced. We found out later the next day that Dr. Douglas Ebersole (cardiologist and consultant to Divers Alert Network) and the late Dr. Fiona Sharp (diving physician and anesthetist) were active participants of Buddy Dive Tek week. If we had spoken up, we most likely would have been able to talk to one or both of them and potentially decide not to dive the next morning. However, hindsight is 20/20, and we just didn’t feel the need to talk about it since Deana’s symptoms had been resolved. 

The next morning Deana felt fine and showed no rash or issues from the previous day. She wanted to do the planned trimix dive to 150 ft. It was the same profile as the previous day’s dive, and the dive went without issue. We had completed an 18-hour surface interval, and Deco Planner showed we could dive the same profile with no additional decompression obligation. 

Deco Planner confirmed our assumption of being clear after 18 hours

About 45 min to an hour post dive, Deana complained of similar skin pain and stinging, but this time it extended down her thighs. When we returned to shore, we shared her symptoms with the technical diving supervisor, Mr. G, and placed her back on medical O2 for about two hours. This resolved the stinging, but Deana showed edema in her thighs, hips, and abdomen and deeper tissue pain. She had resolved to sit by the pool and have a Corona while I took a nap beside her to see if it would resolve itself. 

We Called DAN

About an hour later Deana said, “We have DAN insurance, maybe we should call them and get their advice.” She placed a call to DAN, and within minutes was talking to Dr. Matías Nochetto. After a thorough assessment, Dr. Nochetto stated that, while they cannot diagnose over the phone, there were enough signs and symptoms to recommend we go into the ER and be assessed for DCI. DAN said that Bonaire had a hyperbaric chamber with an excellent team, and they gave us contact information for some of their team members. I cannot say enough good things about how DAN took so much worry away, offered a wealth of knowledge, and confirmed the direction we should take. 

We followed DAN’s advice and told Mr. G what the plan was. Mr. G told us that Dr. Douglas Ebersole was one of the guest speakers and an active diver, and he located him for us before we went to the ER. Dr. Ebersole performed a neurological assessment in the parking lot and talked to Deana about her symptoms. He concurred that she needed to be assessed at the ER, and he felt she was showing signs of lymphatic DCI; his opinion gave us peace of mind, that while her condition wasn’t critical, it should still be checked at the ER. 

After listening to Deana’s diving history over the last few years, he suggested undergoing a Transthoracic Echo (TTE) bubble study to rule out a Patent Forum Ovale (PFO), as this could explain her susceptibility to DCI. PFOs exist in almost a third of the population; although the condition isn’t rare, the condition can be activated due to the pressures exerted on our bodies at depth.

I drove Deana to the Bonaire ER, where the nursing team did a thorough assessment and showed great care, humor, and understanding. The ER nurse who took initial care of Deana was also a paramedic and technical diver and was wonderful to work with. After a full assessment, the ER doctor, who was not a diver, suggested that Deana made a poor choice in deciding to continue diving after a possible bout of skin bends. Deana later mentioned this comment to the ER nurse, adding that the doctor was not a diver and so likely didn’t understand. The ER nurse just smiled and agreed with her. 

We were then visited by one of the hyperbaric physicians, who completed Deana’s neurological exam, which showed no signs of neurological DCI. He diagnosed her with DCI of the lymphatic system and said that recompression would be necessary to treat her symptoms. He gave her a saline IV and a Table 5 treatment in the chamber.

Deana did her 2.5 hour run in the chamber and did not notice any improvement in the pain or edema. However, her doctor told us that the pain and swelling of lymphatic DCI does not go away right after a chamber ride like with other types of DCI; DAN confirmed this when they followed up with us the next morning. We were told that the edema could take a few weeks to normalize. By the next day the pain had decreased, and Deana felt she was recovering. She did not dive any more on this trip, but still had a happy, positive demeanor, and she was the life of the party: Everyone wanted to know all about her chamber ride and experience. 

Without undermining the risks associated with DCI, I want to mention the general positive outcome of this experience: we learned a great deal about Type 1 DCI, no one at our resort made Deana feel like she did something wrong, and everyone offered their support and understanding. 

In Search of a PFO

In closing, I want to offer clarity on some frequent inquiries we’ve received about this story. Some suspected that dehydration may have played a part, but as an RN, Deana had more than doubled her water intake and was always staying hydrated. While dehydration can be a contributing factor to DCI, we do not feel that it was an issue in this case. People also asked about her alcohol intake. By the time of her second DCI hit that required recompression, she had had three Coronas and one mixed drink in three days. Her alcohol consumption was not an issue.

After coming back to the United States, Deana saw Dr. James Holm, who is one of the leading hyperbaric physicians at Virginia Mason in Seattle, and was highly recommended by DAN. Dr. Holm did a follow up examination and agreed that, based on her history, dive profiles, and the lymphatic DCI experience, Deana should get a TTE bubble study to check for a PFO. Deana scheduled a TTE through Overlake Hospital’s Advanced Cardiac Imagery Department. The results revealed that she does, in fact, have a mild-to-moderate PFO.

This diagnosis was bittersweet, as it explained why Deana had frequent incidents of DCI while diving within limits, but it now puts Deana in a position to weigh the risks and determine her next course of action. Both Dr. Holms and Dr. Aviles, an interventional cardiologist who diagnosed the PFO, did not recommend rushing into a PFO repair, which they said was not a silver bullet that would guarantee a DCI-free future.

Both physicians offered several suggestions for Deana to consider: 

1. Stop diving, as this eliminates any risk of DCI in the future. For Deana this is not an option.

2. Modify her dive profile to be more conservative: diving only once per day, diving nitrox 32 but basing her profiles as if she was diving air, and/or extending her decompression profiles and safety stops.

3. Have the PFO repaired, knowing it is not a guarantee, and continue diving being as conservative as possible. 

Dr. Aviles did say that if Deana plans on continuing the frequency and type of diving she has been currently doing, getting the PFO repaired is probably her best option. These are all choices that divers who have been diagnosed with a PFO have to wrestle with, and there is no right or wrong answer. While Deana is considering her options, she will look to be more conservative with her dives. 

Like all types of higher risk sports, divers choose to accept the risk of being injured. For most divers, this is an acceptable risk, so we can enjoy the experiences we so cherish in exploring our aquatic environment. As divers we need to continually educate ourselves so we can make well-informed decisions that attempt to lower our risk of being injured. 

Deana and I highly recommend Gareth Lock’s work on human factors for understanding how our decisions play into potential diving accidents. However, even with research and advancements in technology at our disposal, we still don’t understand DCI. There is no guarantee, even if we follow all the rules, that we will not get bent unless, of course, we stop diving. It is a risk we all take when we submerge beneath the water. 

We have been amazed by the number of people we have met who discovered that they had a PFO in a way similar to Deana. Many have chosen to have their PFO corrected, though some have not, but all of them have been willing to share their experiences with us, helping us make a more informed decision. Next time you or a teammate shows any signs of DCI, tell someone and have it checked out. Sharing our experiences makes us safer, more educated divers. 

Photo by Myra Wisotzky

For Part two of Deana’s story see: Undergoing PFO Surgery as a Team: Deana & Bert’s Excellent Adventure

Additional Resources:

Gareth Lock, The Bend is Uninteresting…The Related Decisions Are Much More So


James D. Fraser is a PADI MSDT and NAUI Scuba Instructor and has been diving in the Pacific Northwest for over 30 years. James currently lives in Seattle, WA, with his wife and dive teammate Deana Fraser. Both James and Deana work at growing the local diving community and sharing their passion with all who are interested.  James recently embraced technical diving, becoming certified as a Technical 1 diver with Global Underwater Explorers. James and Deana have had opportunities to travel all over the world to experience their passion in amazing places such as Egypt and the Maldives. James currently works as a Cyber Security Director with a Fortune 500 Defense Contractor and has been a residential construction business owner as an Emergency Medical Technician (EMT). James wants to expand his knowledge in the diving field and grow his experience in technical diving.

Cave

Andy Torbet: The Swiss Army Knife of the Diving Community

In this era of heightened stress, dive engineer and content producer, Carlos Lander thought it useful to speak to someone who manages prolonged stress in extreme situations. That man is Andy Torbet, a former British special forces officer, cave diver, freediver, rock climber, sky diver, BBC host and producer and DAN Europe Ambassador. Oh did I mention he’s Daniel Craig’s stunt double in the new 007 movie, “No Time to Die.” Here’s what Torbet advised.

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by Carlos Lander. Photos courtesy of Andy Torbet

The COVID-19 pandemic has created new stressful situations  that have raised our awareness of the impact of stress on our mental and physical health. I was, therefore, enthusiastic to talk with Andy Torbet, someone who has—in the past and present—successfully managed prolonged, extreme stress in survival situations.

In his former life, 45-year old Andy Torbet was a bomb disposal officer and maritime counter-terrorism agent for the British Army. When he made the leap to civilian life, he remained within the realm of extreme adventures, becoming one of the finest Briton underwater explorers; he’s a professional cave diver, skydiver, free diver, climber, TV presenter, and filmmaker. His most notable programs include BBC’s The One Show, Coast, Operation Iceberg, Operation Cloud Lab, Britain’s Ancient Capital, The People Remembered

He co-produced the children’s BBC series Beyond Bionic, which was adapted into a computer game:  “Beyond Bionic—Extreme Encounters.” Torbet’s first book, Extreme Adventures, was published in 2015, and he became a host on Fully Charged in April 2020. More recently, he can be seen in the new James Bond film, No Time to Die. He’s obviously a guy who excels in many fields, so he’s familiar with stress and has some ideas about how to cope with it.

Torbet’s prolific diving career memorably includes the Britannic expedition in 2016 for a BBC documentary. He was also involved in “The MV Shoal Fisher—The Mystery Shipwreck,” about a wrecked World War II merchant ship in the English Channel. Andy himself admits his solo exploration of The Cave of Skulls, Scotland’s deepest pot hole system, was “probably the most hardcore” of his adventures. That dive involved crawling through tight and flooded passages, getting stuck, and finally releasing his breath hold just enough to squeeze out of trouble. His book vividly details the harrowing dive and takes readers on a spine chilling adventure, as it did me.

When thinking about Torbet, a Swiss Army Knife comes to mind—an instrument designed to be useful in many situations. Another analogy might be Tony Stark without the Iron Man suit. Or, perhaps, a modern-day Sir David Attenborough. When presented with these options, he happily chose the knife comparison. Mr. Torbet has a compelling set of tools to call upon: He’s a loyal family man, has a sense of purpose, is resourceful and righteous, a teacher, and a risk management expert who can compartmentalize, communicate, and be playful. Oh, and he’s humble.

Torbet began his journey in the beautiful Scottish highlands. Born in 1976, he was an outdoor kid, climbing trees and playing in the lochs with his brother, who has joined him in many adventures over the years. At 20 having finished his university degree in zoology, Torbet joined the Army, inspired by  his brother who had enlisted when he was 16. Torbet also admitted that joining the military was a way to see the world—it appealed to his desire for adventure—and to “make some decent money.” According to Torbet:

“Anyone can have a desire for exploration, but desire won’t get you there; action will. That doesn’t mean being reckless. It means taking the time to build discipline and to acquire the skills and knowledge you need to do whatever you do safely, also balancing the risk with sometimes needing to say, ‘Fuck it, here I come!”

The Torbet Method for Managing Stress  

Mr. Torbet has three favorite sports: diving, skydiving, and “Esoteric Climbing” (where the bedrock is likely to be loose, fragile, and crumbling). Andy explained that, while climbing, he does not need to look down, because he knows how much distance he’s covered. “Even in this type of climbing, when I’m not or I don’t feel entirely in control, I don’t look down,” he said. “It won’t do any good.”  

Why? Sometimes we can’t change an external situation, and that shouldn’t affect our emotions. What is important is how we react and how we reframe it. As Torbet put it:

“What we choose to do and how we choose to act is what counts, and this is all within our power to influence. In fact, sometimes when injuries are crippling us, time is against us, the weather is beating us back, and our kit is failing. Our attitude—the mindset we hold as we walk through the world—is the only thing we can control.” 

Although Torbet has been in many military incursions, he prefers cave diving as an example of managing stress since, in his opinion, underwater caves are the most hazardous environments available to us. “[Underwater caves are] an alien world here on earth, and from a psychological point of view, very oppressive,” he explained. “It’s dark, isolated, cold, and claustrophobic. Therefore, we must deal with those realities long before we enter the cave.” 



There are a few things that Torbet believes we should do to manage stress. First, evaluate the “what if” scenarios familiar to the diving community. Second, gain and maintain proficiency in the skills needed to manage those situations. Third, have the proper equipment and make sure it has been tested. And last, we must be mindful of what we are doing at all times. He also posits that, in an emergency, having fewer choices is better than having many; it reduces the time needed to choose a plan of action and allows us to more easily draw on our training and preparation. Not all situations can be foreseen. As Torbet explained,

“Do not lose yourself in emotions. Be present. I could be a mile from the cave exit; it does not matter. My concern is with the moment.  I know that because I prepared myself, I have a proper plan for contingencies. Something random that I did not expect may occur, but I remain calm, focused on making my way out. I do not succumb to emotions, and I am focused because I prepared myself mentally and physically for this. You don’t save your life at that moment, you save your life in the days, months, and years before that.”

In this way cave diving is reduced to managing a sustainable level of pressure during prolonged periods of time, while maintaining concentration on techniques. 

A Team of One?

Solo diving is a reality of exploring caves in the U.K. Paths are often so narrow that sometimes divers need to crawl, and more than one person will not fit. In tight spots, you’re on your own to handle difficult situations. 

Torbet’s experiences have taught him that, even during team dives, sometimes you need to focus on yourself without distraction and without accepting responsibility for others; Andy experienced this in his Cave of Skulls explorations. Everyone needs to make their own decisions, trust their own gut feelings, and be vocal when things aren’t okay. 

In his case, the Army trained him to put fears aside and get on with the job at hand. Andy specifically wrote in his book that, in the armed forces,  the only option is to man up. When his teammates experienced difficulties during the Cave of Skulls dive, he decided to continue his adventure alone. [Ed. note: Global Underwater Explorers (GUE) does not sanction solo diving.]

“In situations like these—that not only require technical skills but also are potentially dangerous—it is easier to just look after yourself. But, in the vast majority of dives, you’re better off having a teammate. Being alone isn’t just less fun, but it also requires resilience that only a select few—and highly-trained—divers have.” 

After he reached the end of the cave, Andy felt a moment of quiet satisfaction and peace. But, of course, his adventuring didn’t stop there. Andy’s current project and focus? Becoming a stunt double. 

Stunt Doubles 

Managing stress as a stuntman requires individual concentration while your safety is in the hands of others. Torbet’s a bit uncomfortable placing responsibility for his safety in a crew, but he is learning to accept it. He said that he has a great deal of respect for this community, and it was a wonderful opportunity to work on a variety of films. “My last project, James Bond as 007 in No Time to Die, was an incredible experience.” I asked him if he could elaborate, but he said he was under a non-disclosure agreement and couldn’t say more.

Torbet is eager to keep doing these kinds of projects, and he explained that stunts in an action movie require a lot of rehearsal and coordination between different teams, performers, cameramen, and safety crews. It is all extremely streamlined, like a dance between crews. Any stunt person, whether in a blockbuster movie or a documentary, will report that planning is required in order to prevent life-threatening peril. Nothing is left to chance. For all these circumstances, preparedness is key (physically and mentally). Timing and self-confidence are paramount. And, like Torbet’s observation about diving, you save your life long before you start. 

Why does he love being part of the stunt community? 

“They are a real brotherhood, it’s a family atmosphere, and they look after each other. They are extremely motivated, talented, and self-disciplined people who want to get the most out of life. Although they are super adventurers, they also have the skills and bring their game up. On top of all that, everyone that I’ve met is a thoroughly decent human being.” 

A Perspective on life 

 Torbet is constantly in motion, always growing. He recently got his master’s degree in Archaeology. His plan is to write his doctoral dissertation on studying caves. His diverse interests and activities are always driven by passion. He teaches that adventure is personal and that even by walking on the path others have taken, it is still possible to own your journey, to fill it with new experiences and feelings.

“Everyone is different, and what works for me does not necessarily work for you,” Torbet advised. For him, compartmentalizing is a way of dealing with his life experiences. What happened in the armed forces stayed there, and he doesn’t share it with his family or mix it up with his other activities.

I think Torbet’s secret is focusing on the moment. Taking pleasure from his job at hand, filling his time with projects and family. Teaching his kids about the pleasure of nature and freediving when he has spare time. As he told me on more than one occasion, “Your happiness is dictated by the people you surround yourself with.”  

Additional Resources:

Fourth Element Wetnotes: My First Time-Andy Torbet

Read about Andy’s past adventures as well as his current projects at Andy TorbetProjects | Andy Torbet 

Amazon: Extreme Adventures by Andy Torbet

Rising: Meet The Man Who Dives 100m Deep Into Caves One Kilometre Underground

Dive Odyssey—A meditative journey into the depths of water and mind

Beyond Bionic Andy Tornet TOP 3: Andy Torbet from Beyond Bionic tells us his top 3, like his favourite foods, memorable moments and inspirational people!

Find Andy Torbet’s “close call” story in Close Calls by Stratis Kas.

I want to thank Andy for his openness and candor with me and the diving community. He was kind to me, letting me pick his brain. He is truly a gentleman. I really enjoyed our conversations. I hope we can drink a pint or two in an Irish pub in the future and go diving. 



Carlos Lander—I’m a father, a husband, and a diver. I’m a self-taught amateur archaeologist, programmer, and statistician. I think that the amateur has a different mindset than the professional, and that this mindset can provide an advantage in the field. I studied economics at university. My website is Dive Immersion.  You can sign up for my newsletter here.

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